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Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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Enkidu98
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Date Posted:
6/15/03 10:27pm
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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First Off, I have had an Archer since day one of the public release of the game. I have already leveled my Archer.
I was and am well aware of Archer issues, just completely disagree that nerfing another class was the way to fix Archers.
Secondly, this insistance of being in the 'standard' group is foolish. I always grouped with other stealthers. 3-4 Archers a Minstrel and some Infiltrators (Since I have a Scout) are a VERY deadly combination.
In Hibernia currently, on Percival, there are a group of Archers known as DragonMyst keep. They worked together in groups of Stealthers. Using Assist and intelligent target selection they were as effective as any gank group _pre patch_.
I have nothing but utmost repsect for Raad and Emeryc and Aragos et al. They are a very good group of players who understood that they did NOT have to group in the 'standard' group to be effective and instead, had their OWN ways to group which were just as effective.
YOUR Mental frailties are not a problem with the class.
And who was calling for a Nerf to archers? I was suggesting that giving them THREE nerfs to another class was too much.
You just don;t get it. I think its terrifically funny how you come out of the woodwork now, all of you who didn't post once on any number of previous pro-archer _FIXES_ threads when they were posted, but now that you are overpowered and you know it you come out in droves to tell other people to cry more.
Polearmsmen and Long Weapon Users, Celtic Spear Users and Mid Twohanders ALL seem to be able to work together against PBT.
Archers were the only ones to have a problem even though often their attacks were FASTER than these twho handed weapon users becayuse those classes dont get quick as a primary stat, secondary stat or tertiary stat.
So Archers attack faster than two handed weapon users and yet these Two Handers would work together and bypass PBT.
Archers though, inisit that they should be able to solo the frontiers, have whined constantly since they were (over) nerfed previously because they couldn't solo and now that they have gotten the ability to solo on the backs of three other classes, they turn around and tell everyone to use tactics.
*shakes his head sadly*
I would suggest maybe you check back through the topics. I have posted NUMEROUS pro archer threads with NUMEROUS fixes to your class (my class as well with my Scout) that would not have nerfed any other classes.
So why Archers, are you who understand that Nerfing is NOT the best way to dbalance the game, calling for nerfs of other classes.
Its been proven that Archers can get through PBT if they work together. Archer TL tests to 'demonstrate' the nature of PBT on their effectivness show that the Archers are not blocked ANY MORE than any melee class with the same weapon speed.
IE PBT was working exactly hthe same for Archers as it did any other class.
Where archers were hurting was that lacking styled attacks, they missed, were evaded and are blocked far ore than other classes.
THAT is what needs fixing.
Gwal
-----signature-----
Go play Pac-man if you don't like change. -- Orannon
It takes change to play Pac-Man, try another one. -- Jarvssen
VN Insider account 20$, Reading Threads 0$, Seeing Orannon PWNED!!!! Priceless!
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DireBoliccus
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Date Posted:
6/15/03 10:34pm
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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agree with Gwal.. good posts
-----signature-----
DireBoliccus <Iron Circle> 50th level Celt Warden, Hibernia - Gawaine
- cancelled
50 warden going cheap! $5 , and thats AUD 
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{old}Blaac
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Date Posted:
6/15/03 10:59pm
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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I am not exactly saying archers need a "nerf" but dont you see the problem when the skills given out negate the ONLY RvR usefulness of 3 seperate classes?
If a person wants to attack for low damage, and rez, they can play a druid or a battle bard. If they want to heal well, they play a druid or a healing bard, if they want to tank, they play a tank.
I feel extremely ripped off that the only skill I had of any value now has virtually no use except to go on PvE raids and SLOWLY PL a toon.
Yes, on raids I am an extremely good tank, but mobs on raids have no intelligence. Against other players the only chance I have is if I happened to run into someone by themself, are a tank, and that doesnt have a fast attack speed. If they dont meet those exact requirements, there is really no decent chance of survival.
With an archer there are alot more factors that you can control that affect the outcome of the fight. Where you position yourself, what dmg type you use, whether you want to fight them or not, heck, now you can even control your own attack speed depending on whats needed.
I simply want SOMETHING..... ANYTHING making my class worth while now that the only skill we had before is a waste.... heck it wasnt that great of an RvR ability to begin with.
Sorry I turned this into a Wardens are gimp whine post.
-----signature-----
Blaac <Colonial Marines> 50th Firby Warden
Blaac 50th Dwarf Healer Master Armorer
Ameanie GonnaStabYou 4x Lurikeen Nightshade
Blackmusic EvilPercussionist <Colonial Marines> 46 Celt Bard
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Rovinglion
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Date Posted:
6/15/03 11:05pm
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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/agree with Gwal
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{old}Ardamus
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Date Posted:
6/15/03 11:10pm
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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Excellent post Gwal ! I wish more people would stop and think about the whole picture here. Archers needed love, we all can agree on that, but not at the sacrifice of another class.
Ardamus - Percival
49th Wizard
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Xxtayce
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Date Posted:
6/15/03 11:36pm
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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I am suddenly reminded of the "Save Andred!" post that appeared here not too long ago. All of the "hardcore" players who, after chasing everyone else away with their rude attitude and screams of "cry more noob", eventually found themselves playing... alone. Now Andred houses the very few people who chose to stay, and the occasional solo class taking advantage of the xp bonus.
I felt for archers, truly. They have a rough time getting groups in both pve and rvr, and had been living with a nerf for as long as I've known. I wanted to see many of the improvements that Gwal suggested, but as per their usual, Mythic pulled some ideas out of their arse that ruined three other classes, and now archers are satisfied.
One day, in the not so distant future, the game will consist of archers, assasins, mana chanters, and bots. They will moan to Mythic about how there is noone left to kill! And I, from whatever game I have chosen to migrate to, will come back and respond in kind:
"Cry more."
-----signature-----
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/xxtayce/
"Dressed in black and black inside." -- Stabbing Westward
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{old}Balikar
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Date Posted:
6/15/03 11:51pm
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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Gwal ~
This is gonna hurt, but it's gotta be said... PA shouldn't burst your bubble. So run up and whack on the archer. Archer is neutralized and you can send him/her on his way.
It's an option. Instead, all I see is that you want every group member of yours safe from archers because of a spell cast ONCE. That's an entire spec path that you want negated for a spell when cast once, protects your group. That's a tad much.
Now I can also turn around and say that without PA, a group of archers needs to have three archers in it to have an effect on ONE of your group mates. Why? Because if you group with another warden, you can get your PBT stacked for 3 sec duration. That doesn't negate one archer, it negates two.
Also... I'm not a proponent of RF. I think its too much. But a minor fix that I would incorporate is that RF and PA don't mix. When an archer selects RF, what does it do? It turns off PA. What does this mean? That means that PBT comes back into effect, thus neutralizing one shot for every 3, and 2 of the shots if you have another warden on. This also means your group mates would get a bubble, and makes the archer have to use tactics.  This is coming from a hunter who would curse a bit, then turn off RF just to continue working the first target. That sound fair?
Also... one last note... if you've read any of these threads, you'd know I've suggested quite a bit of other fixes.
And Volley/Longshot should continue to cut through PBT and BT's regardless. They're timed, so it won't last that long... my question is, after I hit with Volley, does it burst the BT/PBT or do my next shots get blocked as usual....
-----signature-----
Balikar - 50th Hunter - Bors <The Lords of Darkness> <RETIRED>
Cadsreel - Shaman - Bors <The Lords of Darkness><RETIRED>
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Roofle
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Date Posted:
6/15/03 11:54pm
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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>>Also so was the rapid fire = full damage shots. Both werebugs<<
oh no! werebugs!
-----signature-----
http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=64026577&start=64028304
"I was with SM on Gawaine last night that had full TOA gear and buffbot. He could cast .2 sec on his pbaoe."
-Heartless_ of merlin
IS THIS WHAT U WANTED MYTHIC? IF YOU ASK ME I THINK TH
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{old}mordred-player
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Date Posted:
6/16/03 12:11am
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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Archers over all are cry babies most of the vocal archers are weak players who would whine if they had zonewide AE death touch.
Pretty sad archers still maintain they need love, they are pretty much a caster who can melee with 2x a caster survivabilty, yet they will tell you they are unplayable ( well the crappy ones do and there are loads of crappy archers, the good ones come out and say stuff like RF is overpowered it needed to be nerfed it was unfair, the whiners who suck claim the new changes didnt help archers at all /boggle). Now many will flame me saying ya but we have no group utilty like a caster... Of course they have never pondered WTF group utility is since if they did they would see most casters have zero group utilty, the ones that do end up specing a gimp spell line for medicroe at best utilty, the main one being PBT. Wait more of them will further flame saying how casters have AE dmg, like a ranged AE wizard/runie/eld/chanter/ment nuke every actually killed anyone with the drop off being so harsh you are unlucky yo get hit for 30 dmg if your not the target of one of those ae nukes. Wait they will then claim PBAE is incredible!, like the caster doing it isnt suiciding to do a littel dmg before he is stunned or just interupted and killed in 2 hits.
Archers been a spoiled class since the get go, being so insanely overpowered at release was an embaressment to beta testing, one that we can hope developers learn to tighten up beta testing, since it was the same archer beta testers who fought tooth and nail to ensure they got released in such an insane state, call every other beta tester a liar who stated what archers could really do.
Archers pre 1.62 were a solid average class, very playable, and effective in groups, the problem was they were mostly stubborn looser who still think playable is release caliber archers... thus most of them still attempted to solo ( IE not even group with other stealthers ) in a game where the play had changed so not even assasin romp around solo much anymore.
Anyrate the original poster could have inserted instant death touch instead of by pass PBT, and the same guys would have flamed him and told him to use tactics, get a group, and to cry more noob, yet to a person everyone of them can be found huddled in every archer need help thread singing coom by ya assuring themselves that they are all the greatest players alive who simply got pummeled by mythics archer hating nerf stick, so that no matter how many uber hill tree camping leet "I am a stupid poor player" tactics are used thier class is simply unplayable!
Quite comical to listen to these guys, beg and whine and cry on one thread only to hop to the next calling other players noobs, who can cry more....... LOL.
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angryranger
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Date Posted:
6/16/03 12:59am
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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mordred - what archers do you play again?
-----signature-----
Mythic - Laughingstock of the gaming world
Having Mythic on one's resume is worse than the mark of Cain on one's forehead
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{old}Blaac
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Date Posted:
6/16/03 1:08am
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
- Date Edited:
6/16/03 1:09am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
{old}Blaac
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angryranger - what warden/supp runie/earth thurg do you play again?
-----signature-----
Blaac <Colonial Marines> 50th Firby Warden
Blaac 50th Dwarf Healer Master Armorer
Ameanie GonnaStabYou 4x Lurikeen Nightshade
Blackmusic EvilPercussionist <Colonial Marines> 46 Celt Bard
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Whitegoth
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Date Posted:
6/16/03 2:30am
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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As an archer I do not want PA it is not needed with the introduction of RF. RF was needed it allows us to beat PBT at lower damage but the same DPS. True we could beat PBT before even stacked if we sitched to the 4.0 speed bow which only had 16.2 dps. But to switch we had to open our inentory to switch bows. Melee do not have to do that they can switch from slow to fast weapons at a push of a quickbar button and both weapons can be 16.5 dps.
RF is not overpowering in my opinion if it was I am sure I would have it on all the time. As it is in keep defense I use normal shots unless I am confronted by a lot of "hit magical barrior" messages. When solo I use normal shots unless I am up against a caster (has happened but very unusual). When I am grouped I use RF before I would have had my fast 16.2 bow dps equiped.
As for Longshot and Volley bypassing BT/PBT I don't have an opinion as I do not have those RAs and can not see me having them before Rank 8 or higher if I ever get that far. 
-----signature-----
Falmari Teleri Scout <Black Hearts> MLF
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{old}Randavar
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Date Posted:
6/16/03 3:44am
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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>>>> Please get over yourself and stop calling for nerfs of your realmmates abilities. <<<<
Isn't this what rangers did too Wardens in the first place .... some people really do blow hot air out their butts.
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Dolgann
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Date Posted:
6/16/03 4:46am
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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"Excellent post Gwal ! I wish more people would stop and think about the whole picture here. Archers needed love, we all can agree on that, but not at the sacrifice of another class."
Sorry but Caster's suddenly saying this now are just being hypocrits.
Lets see for the past 6-12 Months:
Bow - whole line was negated by PBT
Stealth - Whole line was negated by Assasins Detect and see hidden.
So basically for months and months Archers (I play a Skald btw) have had two of their main spec lines which were useless in most day to day RVR.
Now tell me in all that time did all the casters start posting on boards how unfair PBT was in its current state and it basically wasnt fair to sacrifice the Archer class in this way?
Of course not, archers got (and this mainly from Casters) "Cry More, Use tactics Find a Group" while off you all went to PBAOE everything in sight.
Sorry you have no sympathy from me here (especially Wardens sorry, I would love my Skald to have 1/2 the abilities they have).
-----signature-----
Dolgann - Lvl 50 Skald
Order of the Storm Seekers - Council
- Seeker
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{old}vn_wrecker
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Date Posted:
6/16/03 5:36am
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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- Archers were on of the worst classes to play pre-patch. Getting your chief form of attack blocked 80% of the time was pathetic. If you advocate archers not getting through PBT then you should advocate the implementation of PST (pulsing spellturn) which would have the same effect against spells, because by logic if PBT is fair against arrows so PST should be too.
- Assisting? Well if an archer had another archer to assist that would be a whole different thing, but then the same could be said if pulsing spellturn was implemented, just have casters assist.
”Rapid Fire - With Rapid fire you now allow archers to fire at .9 seconds per shot. This means they can get 5 shots in between pbt pulses. Even with unfavourable PBT timing (IE First shot breaks bt but then it refreshes immediately) the Archer still gets quite a few shots off. “
- Nope you can’t get below 1.5s per shot.
”So, Since Rapid fire already breaks PBT it would have been enough on its own. “
- Rapid fire just lets an archer shoot for ½ the damage for twice the amount of endurance. This is no different from using a faster bow for less damage, the only thing that has been changed here is so archers don’t have to switch weapons constantly to maintain high rates of fire for less damage and more endurance. This was to combat the quickcast ability of casters.
- Again, nothing has changed here, you could use a faster bow and do less damage if you wanted before the patch!
- Penetrating arrow only does a 'fraction' of the damage a normal shot would if you bypass PBT.
- Archery also still suffers from:
1) High rate of misses
2) Self-BT still stops arrows (any form including PBT)
3) High misses verses any shield opponent
4) Almost 100% of characters under guard by high shield tank
5) Lower damage than casters
6) Longer drawtime than caster (or much less damage if RF used)
7) See Hidden
8) Nearsight longest range spell in game
9) Caster GTAE + assassins with See Hidden stopped archers ability to defend keeps
10) No CC
11) No quickcast
12) Arrow evadable (high evades some classes make it very hard to shoot them)
- So if you think the concept is sound, please advocate in all fairness that pulsing spellturn be added to make it fair. (btw I think pulsing spellturn is a dumb idea).
- Lastly, archers also suffered from both melee and caster penalties before the patch, they would be interrupted like casters would, but had no form of CC, or quickcast to protect themselves. Most of the time groups would just not bother about the archer because they didn’t perceive them as a threat, and they were just RP cows, and archer were just not wanted in groups. Hence, they were at the bottom of the RP table week after week even though they were a damage dealing class, because they just didn’t even deal damage efficiently enough.
- Give the patch a few weeks, and if all archers are so ‘UBER’ as you say now, then they should rank really high in the RP charts, but I really don’t see that happening. They are still a sub-par class, with now added functionality to help them on their way to get in line with the other classes.
-----signature-----
50 Shadowblade of Midgard! RAWR!
Archer shelved till See Hidden is removed
"archers need something to protect them from assassins" - vermifax
http://gt7.net/daoc/death_of_a_scout.html
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vn_theshrike
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Date Posted:
6/16/03 5:50am
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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"Please get over yourself and stop calling for nerfs of your realmmates abilities."
LOL - this from an archer, who probably jumped for joy when he/she first read the 1.62 patch notes describing PA, which nerfed one of his realmates main abilities...
" Giving a class an ability to negate someones main attack is entirely too much."
Oh, but somehow it's just fine to give a class the ability to completely negate someone's main defense? sheesh...
I mean, every single warden thread on the subject of RF and PA make it clear that we want archers to get the love they deserve; just not at the expense of wardens. Replies from the archer community of "/cry more noob" just betray your immaturity (I guess that's why you guys are able to whine as loud as you have).
-----signature-----
Shrike - melee scout ywain
Eikrub - tic ywain
Speedyburk - minstrel ywain
Prulaine - cleric ywain
Burkish - sorc ywain
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{old}Waldur
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Date Posted:
6/16/03 6:27am
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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<<<Lets see for the past 6-12 Months:
Bow - whole line was negated by PBT >>>
An absolute and complete utter lie. PBT never negated the bow line, never. PBT was in the game when archers were king. In relation to archery, PBT was not changed in any way when archers were nerfed. What does that tell you? That the OTHER changes made to archers emasculated them, not PBT. So the solution was to look at those changes, not nerf PBT.
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{old}vn_-quercus-
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Date Posted:
6/16/03 6:39am
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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""Ok yes we can get down to .9 sec with RF, thats with a full 50 enhanc bot and MoA of at least 2. And with that comes the oh so big dmg of 100-150."
I think 0.9 second draw times are possible. Here is what you have to do:
- Play a lurikeen ranger with +18 quick at creation
- Have a 50 nurture bot with MoA3+
- Have Master of Archery 5
- use a 4.0 speed bow
I would venture to say that there is not a single char specced like this anywhere. But since it is theoretically possible then it is assumed that all archers shoot at 0.9.
FYI archers have a standard DPS just like all other melee. If he shoots at 0.9 he will be doing ~65 damage a shot.
Funny all the people complaining about crying archers. All I see is a bunch of blubbering wardens in this thread.
Dry those tears wardens, go play the game and STFU.
-----signature-----
Quercus Alba - L50 Scout - Gawaine *deleted*
Maque - L50 Inf - Gawaine *deleted*
Rayloth - L50 Necro - Gawaine *deleted*
Scalpel - L50 Cleric - Gawaine *deleted*
waiting for the Next Big Thing
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tyrfiel
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Date Posted:
6/16/03 6:53am
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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Oh good, an Enkidu post! These are always entertaining. (BTW is your 2-week boycott of DAoC already over?)
"Rapid Fire - With Rapid fire you now allow archers to fire at .9 seconds per shot."
This is very, very difficult to achieve. You'd need maxed Quickness, MoA4 or 5, and a lightweight bow (i.e. really crappy damage). An archer would have to gimp his RAs and damage in order to be able to shoot that fast. Getting through PBT isn't worth that.
"Penetrating Arrow - .... If you read the archer boards, very few are speccing low in bow like they were previously and most are nosw speccign at least 40 and many going to 50."
I read the Ranger boards every day and popular opinion seems to favor 40 bow, which gives 75% penetration. True this is 3-6 spec levels higher than before. Why is it a problem that archers are speccing higher to acquire desirable abilities?
"Volley and Longshot - .... A group of archers using Ground Assist at a milegate or keep completey decimate the attackers with a VERY rapid and hardly 'limited' ability."
A well-cast AEDOT spell will do far more damage than Volley and Longshot. And GTAE is just as fast. Neither of these is deflected by PBT, yet you do not complain about them.
"Worse they can target areas arrows realistically should not be able to reach (inside stone fortifications) so there is NO DEFENSE at all against them."
No defense against Volley? You're forgetting blocks, evades, misses, ablatives, reverse procs, intercept, and pet intercepts. You're also forgetting that Volley has a 300-350 radius; if you're getting hit, MOVE.
"Longshot and Volley should be returned to their ORIGINAL TIMERS if you are going to make them so powerful."
The old Volley hit for 2 out of 5 shots for 350 damage every 30 minutes. Archers didn't buy Volley in the past because it sucked; there was no purpose for it because it was too limited. Volley is now useful. And Longshot is on a 5 minute timer and hits for normal damage. How is this causing massive damage? It's useful, but situational.
"The Archers who have been brought out of storage since this patch went live are people who actually learned how to play the game in the interim. As such, Archers are now utilising the tools that had been in the game all along to bypass PBT and so they are even more 'blessed' then just your patch changes. "
So, archers play too well to need class enhancements? An unintended, backhanded compliment, but I'll take it. Similarly, maybe PBT made the game too easy for everyone else, and they need to learn how to deal with a few disadvantages.
-----signature-----
Formerly: DAOC (Lamorak, Merlin, Gareth), WoW (Paladin - Turalyon) Currently: Progressquest (Level 47 Demicanadian Battle-Felon) The Looking-Glass DAOC UI: http://camelotvault.ign.com/View.php?view=UI.Detail&id=25
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fizbann
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Date Posted:
6/16/03 7:10am
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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There's a couple misguided ideas in this thread. First, your leaving the impression that archers can only assist archers. Archers never assist S&S tanks or dual weild classes ? Solo archers never target someone that the tanks in another group are attacking ? Even the mages frequently assist the main tank.
Second, 2 wardens in a group might be a difficulty if the other group is all 2H users & pre-PBT nerf archers, but there are just too many classes where PBT is not an issue - mages, S&S tanks, assasins, people who "/assist", duel weild etc. So you end up trading away alot of extra offense for very little extra defense. If your going to run 4 naturalists then put in 2 druids - CC / good buffs / GP / insta's & good healing go alot further then 2 PBT's. 2 PBT's are used to extend coverage, not for 3 second PBT. Our GM is a warden & I have a warden. Much as I'd like to play my warden if she groups with us then mine gets parked & I run an alt.
To say stop calling for a nerf to your realm-mates is ludicrous. Archers called for these changes & our support classes & mages are paying a price for it now. With a .9 second shot even quickcasts are useless - an archer can pin down a mage completely. Try reading the eldritch ex-TL report & keep in mind that much of what he is saying applies to 25%-33% of these realm-mates that you seem to be concerned about. Or was that just sarcasm from an rp ho ?
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Alderic2
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Feb '03
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Date Posted:
6/16/03 7:16am
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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"Now I can also turn around and say that without PA, a group of archers needs to have three archers in it to have an effect on ONE of your group mates. Why? Because if you group with another warden, you can get your PBT stacked for 3 sec duration. That doesn't negate one archer, it negates two. "
If you look at it carefully, even 6 sec pgt doesen't negate 1 archer. Slowest bow is faster than that, and you get a speed boost from your stats.
PBT can easily be countered by using fast weapons, and that included bows.
So, a warden speccing for pbt, the only thing they have really, can greatly hinder an archer, I think it was working fine.
Now, some of you said that 2 warden with stacking pbt could completely negate archer attacks. You're right, and that's working exactly as it should, too.
If there are 2 wardens in a group, you need 2 archers, and as above, your abilities are reduced, but not negated by those 2 wardens.
It was working just fine, and achers needed nothing.
And RF is pure BS, if it's really 100-150 damage per second it's jsut uber.
And I tend to believe it is, since I know what archers hit for now .
I really wonder why melee classes have to choose 1 type of damage, yet archers get all 3. Melee characters have to choose to have slow hard hitting weapons, or faster ones that hit for less and archers can have both.
And finally I'd like to know why melee get a penalty to damage to attack faster (by raising quickness) and archers apparently don't.
Archers are ripe for another round of nerfs.
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Casters don't want to actually put as much work into avoiding a perf as we do setting one up. I can't really blame them, long as they recognize the double-standardness of the opinion.
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SoBaKi
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Date Posted:
6/16/03 7:25am
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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"The funny thing is you dont think doing 100-150 dmg per SECOND is overpowered...
If those really are the numbers I am definitely rolling and archer over my warden."
No, I don't.
When my fully buffed armsman with 2300 hps is nuked in 8 seconds, 3 times, for 850 each nuke, hitting for 100-150 each second is a lot more reasonable.
2550 (850*3) / 8 seconds = 318.75 per second of damage.
It's not the most scientific means, by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm sure there are other tanks out there that have run into this sort of situation.
So, when I read people crying about getting hit for 100-150 damage per second, you just have to laugh.
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"Do what you can, where you are, with what you have." - Teddy Roosevelt
Know god, know sin. No god, no sin.
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tyrfiel
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Date Posted:
6/16/03 7:26am
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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I just re-read this thread, and I'm astonished at the number of people who think every archer fires at 0.9s.
In general, archers shoot normal shots at: 3-4s.
In general, archers shoot RF shots at: 1.5-2s.
With my fastest bow, haste buff, and RF turned on, I can't even get my draw time readout to show "You prepare your shot (1s)."
It is POSSIBLE for archers to shoot at 0.9s. It is NOT something you will see every day, IF EVER.
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Formerly: DAOC (Lamorak, Merlin, Gareth), WoW (Paladin - Turalyon) Currently: Progressquest (Level 47 Demicanadian Battle-Felon) The Looking-Glass DAOC UI: http://camelotvault.ign.com/View.php?view=UI.Detail&id=25
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xSilentShotx
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Date Posted:
6/16/03 7:38am
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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Rapid firing thru pbt at most will get you rapidly killed. Spec'd 50 LB your talking about 150ish dmg per shot. Not only are you not stealthed anymore, your annoying someone with the equivalent of a pinprick compared to their 1000+ hits. Your arguement is flawed at it's very best.
Let me guess you have a problem with being critshot thru pbt. Wow that happens once in a blue moon. If your standing still in rvr you deserve to get critshot or perfed or whatever else happens to you.
Penetrate arrow will never penetrate personal pbt, at best it will pop your pbt bubble, which wow a normal shot will do already. Obviously your commenting from an outside POV, and have almost no clue what your talking about. Here's a headline for you, yes you will get killed by an archer once in awhile, please don't show your ignorance by making a post about it lol. Have a good day sir...
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xSilentShotx
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Date Posted:
6/16/03 7:43am
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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Your right group pbt double stacked in a group is by no means overpowered. It will by no means completly negate any arrows shot thru it prepatch. I know it's hard to accept that your one I WIN button is no longer workin as prepatch. Yes wardens need rebalancing, but not in the way that you should once again be able to double stack pbt and negate completely the archer class. I understand why it's hard to accept dying to an archer seeing as how it was almost not a thought prepatch. Welcome to our world, one in which you will be dying by yes /cry an archer...
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