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Topic:
Guard Patrols
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crushtflat
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Posts:
1,316
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Oct '02
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Date Posted:
9/9/03 1:32pm
Subject:
Guard Patrols
- Date Edited:
9/9/03 1:39pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
crushtflat
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Recently I made a complaint post about the negative impact guard patrols have had on my home server boards. Rather to my surprise, I didn't get a single flame post response. It seemed like everyone on my server who surfs these boards agrees that guard patrols, as they are now, are the single most dicouraging factor in the game in terms of solo/small group RvR.
Now, with guard patrols moving around at something akin to mach 10, with guards easily being high oj/red con at 50, and with so many guard patrols out there, it's extremely easy for any group less than about 5 or 6 people to get overwhelmed. As I stated in my original post on my server's board, "I can't leave OG or HW unless I want to suicide on guards.  "
I thought of several ways that this issue could be at least lessened, as did some people who responded to my thread, but from certain feedback I've read to TL reports it seems that Mythic is more interested in just having the problems pointed out and having them to come up with solutions on their own.
So right now the questions I have are: What are your opinions on guard patrols? How can I try to get the Hibernian RvR TL to try to get Mythic to look at guard patrols as a serious issue effecting solo and small group RvR?
The original thread I made on my home server board can be found here: http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=56060626
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Vrede - 60 Paladin ((Medivh))
Zyk - 60 Pyro ((Scarlet Crusade))
Those are my principles, and if you don't like them..
well, I have others. -Groucho Marx
[Formerly Crusht, DAOC, Tristan]
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Sqweebo
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Title: Sexiness TL
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3,190
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Dec '02
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Date Posted:
9/9/03 1:41pm
Subject:
RE: Guard Patrols
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I agree,how the hell can a guard with heavy armor run so damn fast,i think speed needs to be toned down,aside from that let them patrol along their normal routes,also they need to have a LOS i was in the second floor of the tower in albion near sauvage when guards aggroed me though the walls and killed me.
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Taliya_Iseult
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Posts:
970
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Jul '02
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Date Posted:
9/9/03 2:12pm
Subject:
RE: Guard Patrols
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Make guard speed correspond to their level of upgrade.
level 1-2 keep - bard/skald/mins speed 1
level 3-4 keep - bard/skald/mins speed 2
level 5-6 keep - bard/skald/mins speed 3
level 7-8 keep - bard/skald/mins speed 4
level 9-10 keep - bard/skald/mins speed 5
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Fossa_Incendiary
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Posts:
1,028
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Date Posted:
9/9/03 2:18pm
Subject:
RE: Guard Patrols
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Their speed may need to be nerfed just a bit. But that is all. You don't wanna make guards too easy to kill.
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Cataclysm9
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Posts:
3,086
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Jul '03
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Date Posted:
9/9/03 2:18pm
Subject:
RE: Guard Patrols
- Date Edited:
9/9/03 2:19pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Cataclysm9
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The speed per keep upgrade concept is a great idea.
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Lots'O characters - WoW
50 Ranger (Cathan), Shade (Finite), and Ment (EpicPlague) - DAOC Merlin
I once asked God for a bike, then I realized God doesn't work that way.
So I stole a bike and asked for Gods forgiveness.
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crushtflat
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Date Posted:
9/9/03 2:27pm
Subject:
RE: Guard Patrols
- Date Edited:
9/9/03 2:30pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
crushtflat
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The main issue I have with them *IS* the fact that they are so hard to kill, and that there are so many of them.
People don't go out in small RvR groups to fight guards and take keeps or to go on relic raids. They go out to find some nice, small RvR fights to get in. Instead (especially with soloers), they just end up getting smacked down by a roaming guard patrol of 2 ojs and a red.
It really sucks to spend 30 minutes running out to a border keep if you don't have any innate class speed ability just to get ganked by some NPCs on the way there or while there.
Make there be fewer patrols, lower con patrols (i.e. not effected or not as effected by keep claim level), and/or fewer guards per patrol (this last one is kind of strange even to me; there are already only 3 per patrol..)
That's my 2 cents in terms of solutions.
EDIT: The important part, really, is to find a nice balance between there being enough guards to maintain their original purpose (notice of a zerg moving through the area on a keep or, especially, relic raid), while still allowing soloers to be able to get through and find some decent level of entertainment value from the endgame of this mmorpg..
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Vrede - 60 Paladin ((Medivh))
Zyk - 60 Pyro ((Scarlet Crusade))
Those are my principles, and if you don't like them..
well, I have others. -Groucho Marx
[Formerly Crusht, DAOC, Tristan]
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AlixandreTyrael
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Date Posted:
9/9/03 2:28pm
Subject:
RE: Guard Patrols
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Perhaps the three realms should contact their RvR TLs and see if we can get this fixed? (read: punt the damn overpowered guards)
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Donatelo Ninjaturtle- Gryphon Knight Friar; Tristan (Retired)
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few other alts here and there
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Cataclysm9
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Date Posted:
9/9/03 2:30pm
Subject:
RE: Guard Patrols
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I believe this was first introduced to hamper gank groups greifing people xp'n in the frontier. We all know this does not happen any longer (xp groups in the frontier that is), so some adjustment is in order.
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Lots'O characters - WoW
50 Ranger (Cathan), Shade (Finite), and Ment (EpicPlague) - DAOC Merlin
I once asked God for a bike, then I realized God doesn't work that way.
So I stole a bike and asked for Gods forgiveness.
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Revok
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Date Posted:
9/9/03 2:34pm
Subject:
RE: Guard Patrols
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...guard patrols, as they are now, are the single most dicouraging factor in the game in terms of solo/small group RvR.
I really don't see this. The ones that solo tend to be stealthers, which usually don't move beyond the portal zones; they go where the food is. And I've never been a group that's had a problem killing a patrol. In fact, we sometimes do it on purpose in the hopes that we can get the enemy to stick their heads out.
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magius69
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Title: The Pinapple Canadian
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3,236
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Jan '01
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Date Posted:
9/9/03 2:47pm
Subject:
RE: Guard Patrols
- Date Edited:
9/9/03 2:51pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
magius69
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Guards patrols are currently the only form of control a keep exibits over an area in this games current state. Otherwise the keep would be nothing but an avoidable obsticle out there for those who wan't a good time. Sure they bolster Relic keep guards and yes they do help you get DF, but those are not forms of control over the land the keep is in.
Those guards are nothing but a nusance out there to enemies but they are helpful in their own way. For one thing they act as scouts for us just like a keep would have. They help detect danger before it arrives and give you advance warning of danger threatning the keep or a relic. Those patrols can also help aid realm members who might have been jumped by an enemy group or assasin possibly helping turn the tide of that battle. Just like any patrol would in life, if you wander out there unprepared for one little patrol you deserve the fate to which you get.
Guard Patrols in their current form are not powerful enough to kill off enemy groups but do serve well in aiding realm mates who have engaged the enemy in the area, acting as forward scouts associated with the keep, and removing small enemy nusances.
I think that the guild who controls a keep should have the right to increased intel from it, and those who are near the friendly keep deserve increased protection from it.
In esscence this is much more mellow then what a keep should be like. If those keeps where as they should be they would be found at choke points and you would likely see alot more patrols out there which can threaten a group. Keeps and their lords had lordship and control over their areas, it was the main reason for the fortress to be built in the first place. DAoC is however a game and it is to be run by players hence why they gave the guards useful purpose but didn't make them any force to be reckoned with unless you attack the keep itself.
Guards run at a extream speed so that they have coverage without having to add more patrols. A keep controls an area currently and guards are that form of control. They are not controling an area if they only pass it once in a blue moon like they would with no speed. So as a result they either would have had to add a bunch more patrols so that their presence is frequent in all areas or increase the existing guards patrol speed so they visit those areas more often. The second option is what they chose and its the most fair one currently because if there where more guards patroling then you would get owned after the first door falls by the swarm of guards, and you would have alot more trouble wandering through the frontier then you do now with few fast moving patrols.
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Cornelous
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Posts:
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Date Posted:
9/9/03 2:51pm
Subject:
RE: Guard Patrols
- Date Edited:
9/9/03 2:55pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Cornelous
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welp im going to be the bad apple of the bunch 
I think guard patrols should be increased from 3 to 5, increased in numbers, AND they should partrol emain.
SOMETHING has to be done to make the Hib frontier less zerg freindly and since Mythic is unwilling to change the landscape or add MOBs more like the other two realms frontiers, then i think increasing guards, guard patrols, and their routes should make up for it, somewhat.
sorry if that makes you soloers mad. On my server it's very very rare that you get a solo anything....99% of the time its a big Alb Warder zerg or highly specialized 8 man gank groups. Either of wich can handle guard partrols like they arent even there. The STEALTHERS dont even solo, its not uncommon to go out of DL and get ganked by 2 (or more, usually more) infs and a scout or minstrel.
so, nope, i dont support the less guards or reducing their speed.
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Cornelous - Shaman <Hand of Shadow> - Deathwing
Orcanman - Warrior <Hand Of Shadow> - Deathwing
DAoC (Canceled due to Mythics lack of understanding about their own game)
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Cadinsors_Bardsbane
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Title: Fate Destroyer
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Date Posted:
9/9/03 2:56pm
Subject:
RE: Guard Patrols
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bahhhhhhh.... only changes that need to be made are close to the bk. go to uppland.. all areas around the bk are patrolled... doesnt need to be that much.
but yeah i like the speed having to do with upgrade.
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Cadinsor - Assassin - Aion (aka the grind)
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SkarfacePk
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Date Posted:
9/9/03 3:02pm
Subject:
RE: Guard Patrols
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I think the guard situation is just fine; concentrate on fixing something that will balance out classes . People always trying to distract Mythic!
that is my 2cents
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Kilteer
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Title: Lawful Bastard
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Date Posted:
9/9/03 3:03pm
Subject:
RE: Guard Patrols
- Date Edited:
9/9/03 3:06pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Kilteer
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"As I stated in my original post on my server's board, "I can't leave OG or HW unless I want to suicide on guards. ""
Hmmm, I have different experiences. I'm perfectly able to leave the HPK solo in either OG or HW and reach Castle Sauvage or Svasud Faste without issue of guards. It's a matter of knowing the terrain, knowing the patrol routes, and not running right through the middle as if there is no danger.
"The main issue I have with them *IS* the fact that they are so hard to kill, and that there are so many of them."
Solo, I can take down a non-upgraded patrol. (1 yellow, 2 blues). I've (rarely) taken down mildly upgraded patrols (1 orange, 2 yellows), thanks to luck and lucky defenses.
With a group of 3 (tank, healer, caster), I've never had an issue with a single patrol. I've been in places where the patrols from different keeps overlap and you and can find multiple patrols, at which point there are severe problems.
There's this one spot, a little east and slightly north of Berkstead in Pennine Mountains where the 4 Pennine keeps' patrols overlap. All 4 patrols cross there with 30 seconds of each other. If you hit the first patrol, you will very quickly have 4 patrols aggro'd onto you. If you don't have a way to kill them quickly, more will arrive. I found that spot the hard way. )= Guess what, I avoid it like the plague now.
What's interesting is that the mob aggro in Albion is the most treacherous part of that realm, the guards are the easy part. Even then, once you learn the aggro camps, or even get certain factions set up, you can avoid everything.
Midgard has the worst (for an invader) patrol setup. The guards have a pattern that seems staggered and covers areas (closer to zone walls) that other realm patrols do not cover.
Then there's Hibernia... both the guard patrols and the aggro are very easy to avoid.
"only changes that need to be made are close to the bk. go to uppland.. all areas around the bk are patrolled... doesnt need to be that much."
Albion and Hibernia have that setup as well (at least in Cruachan Gorge and Forest Sauvage). The BK patrols closest to the Portal BK are the heaviest in all the realms, and the other BKs are lightly guarded.
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AmbadiasRanger
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Posts:
373
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Aug '03
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Date Posted:
9/9/03 3:11pm
Subject:
RE: Guard Patrols
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*wishes he had the screenshot where a chanter a tank and myself ran across around 6 red guards, and the chanter mocced and we kicked the crap out of the guards*
if you cant handle the guards in a smal group, dont go near the keeps in other peoples realms, and dont go to any other realm and sift through the guards to get to the pk. the guards are fine. stop whining. devs have enough to do
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Furryhamster
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Date Posted:
9/9/03 3:11pm
Subject:
RE: Guard Patrols
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Their speed may need to be nerfed just a bit. But that is all. You don't wanna make guards too easy to kill.
Yes you do.
The point of the patrols is to "indicate" or "patrol" the region and inform you of whats coming... it shouldnt be that they can wipe out soloers or small groups of say 2 or 3..
I would hope Mythic stops this stupid thing they put in.. and make soloing fun again.
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