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Impulse
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Registered: Jul 2002
Location: Puerto Rico
Posts: 1810

Cross-class Archery Weaponskill

quote:
Originally posted by Walliss
Repsecced to 38+16 bow (to ge the same end skill) on pendragon and self buffed with 240 dex i had 1289 weaponskill. With more dex and same skill shouldn't it be the same. Or does base bowspec have a unforseen affect? Even with another 2 spec points in base would only be 32 (still 8 short).

Not sure what this proves but someone is getting thier numbers mixed up

Went to Pend, respec'd my Scout, with 212 Dex (unbuffed, +LB isn't capped, the copy is RR6 so +5 from rank and +10 from items):

36+15 = 1262
40+15 = 1295
45+15 = 1337
48+15 = 1362
50+15 = 1379

I noticed 6 Dex gave me roughly 23 WS points when I respec'd out of AugDex3/MoA2 a couple months ago. My numbers above suggest each spec point gives you roughly 8.5 more WS.

Moving on to Wallis' numbers. My 40+15 WS minus 9 or so points would be 1284 w/212 Dex. He's got 28 more Dex which should amount to a higher WS yet he said his WS was 1289. I'm gonna have to ask that you verify those numbers real good and make sure you were in fact buffed.

Otherwise there may be something wrong with Hunter's WS seeing as if theirs is lower to Scout's, yet Ranger's (from what I've seen in the past, if anyone can post theirs it'd help) isn't, then that's not very kosher.

P.S. My Scout on live with the same Dex as the Pend copy (212) and 48+17 LB has 1384 WS. I would've expected him to have the same WS as the copy with 50+15 (1379) but I guess +RR/item gives a slightly better bonus? Seems the bonus gained from spec is like 8.4 and from items it's 11? I do remember that when I went up from RR6 to RR7 my WS went from 1375 to 1384 so that would suggest the RR/spec bonus is the same.

P.S.S. I know the amount of WS gained per every Dex point probably isn't exactly 23 for every 6 (Dex points), there's a decimal or two involved... but if you use 8.5 for every spec/RR point, 11 for every +item point, and 23 for every 6 Dex points, with the data provided, you can get a very close aproximate of the actual listed WSs for me and the Ranger (within 10-15 of the actual WS).

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Last edited by Impulse on 12-09-2003 at 11:50 PM

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12-09-2003 07:14 PM

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Impulse
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Location: Puerto Rico
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Not being able to communicate at the moment with any of the Hunters I know on my server, I went to Ebay wondering if maybe I lucked out and found a Hunter for sale that had put up a screenshot of his stats (so I could see Dex/spec/WS). I found this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...bayphotohosting

Hunter with 42+11 Composite Bow, 212 Dex, and 1265 Weaponskill. I'm assuming it's bow WS and that the 42+11 is +3 from RR and +8 from items, either way the results don't change a lot unless the WS displayed is actually Spear WS. That would suggest that WS scales essentially the same as Ranger/Scout (and that Walliss made some kinda error above, but again, cannot reach this conclusion without knowing more Hunter's WS or whether the above displayed WS is bow for sure or Spear).

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12-09-2003 07:15 PM

Impulse
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I asked Kamill (fellow Hunter in Gawaine) what his bow WS was, he gave me a fully buffed number but as far as I can tell it still scales pretty much the same as what I've already posted. He's at 1855 WS with 39+16 bow spec (RR6) and 367 Dex. 1626 WS with 50+16 Spear, 316 Str, in case anyone's wondering how that scales comparatively (also note that Spear has an extra 5% over most hybrid's WS).

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12-09-2003 08:30 PM

Walliss
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Registered: Apr 2002
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Posts: 737

quote:
1855 WS with 39+16 bow spec (RR6) and 367 Dex. 1626 WS with 50+16 Spear, 316 Str, in case anyone's wondering how that scales comparatively (also note that Spear has an extra 5% over most hybrid's WS).

should be 6% because we have (or were given a while ago) 6% increase in damage to compensate for our cack melee ... still aint enough but hey

5% is close enough

with 356 dex (anything over 350 doesn't count anyway) and 48+16 bow I have less than that :/

I would take some screenshots but my hosting isp has gone bankrupt

gonna log onto Pend and get fully buff with 50+16 bow plus full BC buffs (yey for infinate respecs

), and see what weapon skill I have

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12-09-2003 08:38 PM

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Wulff
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Registered: Jul 2003
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Unbuffed: 197 dex / 1,291 WS

Self buffed: 239 dex / 1,449 WS

45 + 16

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12-09-2003 11:10 PM

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Impulse
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Over 350 does count (and every point over 350, or over 300 for that matter, has the same effectiveness as those under 300).

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12-09-2003 11:35 PM

Kalliph
Pathfinder

Registered: Apr 2002
Location: England
Posts: 228

My testing on Pendragon revealed the following numbers:

*************************************************

code:Saracen Scout
Longbow 45 +14
			Incremental Difference	Total Difference
Dex 222 Weaponskill 1372	+5 dex = +23 Weaponskill	+54 dex = 201 Weaponskill
Dex 217 Weaponskill 1349	+1 dex = +0 Weaponskill	+49 dex = 178 Weaponskill
Dex 216 Weaponskill 1349	+3 dex = +15 Weaponskill	+48 dex = 178 Weaponskill
Dex 213 Weaponskill 1334	+2 dex = +7 Weaponskill	+45 dex = 163 Weaponskill
Dex 211 Weaponskill 1327	+1 dex = +0 Weaponskill	+43 dex = 156 Weaponskill
Dex 210 Weaponskill 1327 	+2 dex = +8 Weaponskill	+42 dex = 156 Weaponskill
Dex 208 Weaponskill 1319 	+1 dex = +8 Weaponskill	+40 dex = 148 Weaponskill
Dex 207 Weaponskill 1311 	+2 dex = +6 Weaponskill	+39 dex = 140 Weaponskill
Dex 205 Weaponskill 1305 	+3 dex = +8 Weaponskill	+37 dex = 134 Weaponskill
Dex 202 Weaponskill 1297 	+1 dex = +6 Weaponskill	+34 dex = 126 Weaponskill
Dex 201 Weaponskill 1291 	+2 dex = +8 Weaponskill	+33 dex = 120 Weaponskill
Dex 199 Weaponskill 1283 	+3 dex = +8 Weaponskill	+31 dex = 112 Weaponskill
Dex 196 Weaponskill 1275 	+1 dex = +7 Weaponskill	+28 dex = 104 Weaponskill
Dex 195 Weaponskill 1268 	+5 dex = +16 Weaponskill	+27 dex = 97 Weaponskill
Dex 190 Weaponskill 1252 	+4 dex = +14 Weaponskill	+22 dex = 81 Weaponskill
Dex 186 Weaponskill 1238 	+2 dex = +8 Weaponskill	+18 dex = 67 Weaponskill
Dex 184 Weaponskill 1230 	+1 dex = +6 Weaponskill	+16 dex = 59 Weaponskill
Dex 183 Weaponskill 1224 	+3 dex = +8 Weaponskill	+15 dex = 53 Weaponskill
Dex 180 Weaponskill 1216 	+2 dex = +8 Weaponskill	+12 dex = 45 Weaponskill
Dex 178 Weaponskill 1208 	+4 dex = +14 Weaponskill 	+10 dex = 37 Weaponskill
Dex 174 Weaponskill 1194 	+2 dex = +7 Weaponskill	+6 dex = 23 Weaponskill
Dex 172 Weaponskill 1187 	+4 dex = +16 Weaponskill	+4 dex = +16 Weaponskill
Dex 168 Weaponskill 1171



Dex 222	
Spec		Weaponskill	Incremental
Longbow 12 +14 = 	1087		Difference
Longbow 13 +14 = 	1096		+9
Longbow 14 +14 = 	1104 		+8
Longbow 15 +14 = 	1113 		+9
Longbow 16 +14 = 	1121 		+8
Longbow 17 +14 = 	1130 		+9
Longbow 18 +14 = 	1139 		+9
Longbow 19 +14 = 	1147 		+8
Longbow 20 +14 = 	1156 		+9
Longbow 21 +14 = 	1165 		+9
Longbow 22 +14 = 	1173 		+8
Longbow 23 +14 =	1182		+9
Longbow 24 +14 =	1190 		+8
Longbow 25 +14 =	1199 		+9
Longbow 26 +14 =	1208 		+9
Longbow 27 +14 =	1216 		+8
Longbow 28 +14 =	1225 		+9
Longbow 29 +14 =	1234 		+9
Longbow 30 +14 =	1242 		+8
Longbow 31 +14 =	1251 		+9
Longbow 32 +14 =	1259 		+8
Longbow 33 +14 =	1268 		+9
Longbow 34 +14 =	1277 		+9
Longbow 35 +14 =	1285 		+8
Longbow 36 +14 =	1294		+9
Longbow 37 +14 =	1303		+9
Longbow 38 +14 =	1311		+8
Longbow 39 +14 =	1320 		+9
Longbow 40 +14 =	1329 		+9
Longbow 41 +14 = 	1337 		+8
Longbow 42 +14 = 	1346 		+9
Longbow 43 +14 = 	1354 		+9
Longbow 44 +14 = 	1363 		+9
Longbow 45 +14 = 	1372 		+9
Longbow 46 +14 = 	1380 		+8
Longbow 47 +14 = 	1389 		+9
Longbow 48 +14 = 	1398 		+9
Longbow 49 +14 = 	1406 		+8
Longbow 50 +14 = 	1415 		+9

This seems to prove Impulse's estimations are correct, roughly ~8.5 Weapon Skill gain per spec point/RR, also +6 dex equals roughly ~23 Weapon Skill.

Also, I f you compare Wullf's unbuffed Weapon Skill with my nearest point of reference you'll find they are almost identical.

Wulff unbuffed : 197 dex / 1291 WS
Me unbuffed : 196 dex / 1275 WS

Wulff has 2 RR's over me so 2 x ~8.5 = 17, adding that onto my stat should give: 196 dex / 1292 WS almost exactly the same give or take for rounding errors.

I can only assume rounding errors also cause the dex 210, 211 and 216, 217 to report the same WS - unless diminishing returns is kicking in.... ?

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12-09-2003 11:37 PM

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Xzzy
Nature Kin

Registered: Jan 2003
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Posts: 530

quote:
Originally posted by Impulse
Hunter with 42+11 Composite Bow, 212 Dex, and 1265 Weaponskill.

My ranger with my pve gear on has 35+13 recurve, 210 dex, and 1235 weaponskill. Unbuffed.

If I had the additional 5 spec points this hunter had, at 8.5 ws per point I would get 42.5 more ws, for a total of 1277 ws (rounded down).

Either hunters are getting screwed or the 8.5 isn't prefectly accurate.

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12-09-2003 11:48 PM

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Impulse
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quote:
Originally posted by Xzzy
My ranger with my pve gear on has 35+13 recurve, 210 dex, and 1235 weaponskill. Unbuffed.

If I had the additional 5 spec points this hunter had, at 8.5 ws per point I would get 42.5 more ws, for a total of 1277 ws (rounded down).

Either hunters are getting screwed or the 8.5 isn't prefectly accurate.

It is very important that when you're listing these things, you note just how much of the +bonus is from RR and how much is from items (they differ apparently). Anyway, as I already stated, that Hunter only had +8 CB from items and the other +3 was from RR. I suspect that you have +11 from items and +2 from RR no? There lies the difference.

The differences encountered so far (due to rounding/display errors and not having the exact formulas) don't even amount to a 5% difference, so I don't see any proof that Hunters suffer from lesser WS.

P.S. Just so it's clear Xyz, you're getting slightly more bang for your buck from your existing points than that Hunter is, due to him not having capped +CB.

If you you added 8-ish points (2.5 x 3, 2.5 being roughly the difference between item and RR/spec pts, he's currently 3p under the item cap which I'm assuming you're not) to his WS or removed them from yours (as to assume your points were used equally between item/spec-RR) then the WSs would again be within less than 3 points of each other.

Admittedly, with as much rounding as there is... that particular Hunter wasn't the best possible example (since his +CB is not capped) but the others that have posted so far (like Wulff and Kam) seem in line.

Last edited by Impulse on 13-09-2003 at 12:12 AM

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13-09-2003 12:02 AM

Impulse
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Update: As far as I can tell (I wasn't sure about this and hadn't bothered to figure it out) the bonus gained from RR points is calculated just like the bonus gained from items (meaning 2.5-ish more WS per point).

My Scout, w/312 Dex and +11 from items in both situations (the first is from an older copy with all the same gear):
50+15 = 1379
48+17 = 1384

I also compared my 48+17 WS to Kabuki's 48+13 WS (1340) and got the same results. To go even farther, I removed my vest (which dropped LB by 4 points and Dex by 1) and lost 22 points, same results; roughly 11 WS points for every +item or +RR LB bonus.

It further explains some of the inconsistencies encountered above, when I get a break I'll go over them and compare them all directly again (along with any WS that has been or gets posted meanwhile, but please point out your +bonus and not just total modified spec).

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13-09-2003 12:43 AM

Xzzy
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Registered: Jan 2003
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So I have this clear in my head, then, does it work like this:

Base spec: 8.5 ws per point
Items: 11 ws per point
RR: 8.5 ws per point

Not sure what you were saying in that paragraph but that's what I got out of it, is that correct?

Seems kind of odd that mythic would differentiate between where the spec points are coming from, though I guess I don't mind having more weaponskill. ;)

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13-09-2003 12:45 AM

Impulse
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1 of 2

Easiest test of them all, and anyone can repeat it in 5 minutes...

Attachment: scouttest.jpg
This has been downloaded 31 time(s).

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13-09-2003 01:40 AM

Impulse
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2 of 2

Both /level 20 toons. Both spec'd to 20 bow, both with the same amount of Dex (gave the Kobold 10 at creation so he'd have as much as the Saracen). Both with a bonus of +1 to their bow spec (from the trainer bow which as you can see is equipped on both). Exactly 262 WS on both.

Attachment: huntertest.jpg
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13-09-2003 01:43 AM

Kaber
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copy/paste from the other post, didnt see we started a new one:

Important distintion that may have been missed:

Items give 1.15% boost to WS per pt (14-18).
Base spec gives HALF (7-9 WS per pt).
Realm Ranks act like base spec when it comes to WS.

Take that into account when you're quoting out WS numbers, and i think you will find WS is equal across classes.

edit: I have some numbers written around somewhere of myself unbuffed, and fully buffed speccing my bow from 12 through 50, showing the 1.15% boost (some lvl's it isnt exact for some reason, probably strange rounding errors).

ie: have 1500 WS with 39+10 bow, add in that last +1 will give you 1517 WS. If you went up to 40 base bow instead, you'd have 1508 (1509 if they round up).

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13-09-2003 03:23 AM