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Topic:
Polearm Tests (Compliation)
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Keersdan
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Apr '02
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Date Posted:
10/9/03 11:56am
Subject:
Polearm Tests (Compliation)
- Date Edited:
10/9/03 12:10pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Keersdan
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Since these are spread through a few threads, I wanted to get them all in one place.
Keersdan's Stats:
223 Str, 50 Quick, R4L0
Target:
Level 50 full enhance spec cleric wearing epic armor in 100% condition with 26% slash resist. He has the highest Con, Str/Con, and Health Regen buffs on him, Keersdan is unbuffed. AF is 635, hits are 1767.
Weapon:
Shimmering Arcanium Crackling Decimator Poleaxe
16.5 Base DPS
16.2 Clamped DPS
100% Quality
100% Condition
Effective DPS: 16.2 DPS
These factors remained constant for all three tests, including checking the clerics armor to make sure it had not degraded.
--------------------------------------------
Test 1: 50+14 Polearm, 20+14 Slash, 1415 Weaponskill.
122 Attacks, 101 hits, 82% Hit Rate.
Minimum Damage: 139
Maximum Damage: 202
Average Damage: 170
Damage Spread: 63 points
28.8 DPS
--------------------------------------------
Test 2: 50+14 Polearm, 25+14 Slash, 1415 Weaponskill
122 Attacks, 105 Hits, 86% Hit Rate.
Minimum Damage: 145
Maximum Damage: 209
Average Damage: 177
Damage Spread: 64 points
30.0 DPS
--------------------------------------------
Test 3: 50+14 Polearm, 30+14 Slash, 1415 Weaponskill
147 Attacks, 143 Hits, 83% Hit Rate.
Minimum Damage: 153
Maximum Damage: 217
Average Damage: 183
Damage Spread: 64
31.1 DPS
--------------------------------------------
Test 4: 50+14 Polearm, 35+14 Slash, 1415 Weaponskill
106 Attacks, 90 Hits, 84% Hit Rate.
Minimum Damage: 160
Maximum Damage: 224
Average Damage: 192
Damage Spread: 64
32.6 DPS
--------------------------------------------
Test 5: 50+14 Polearm, 36+14 Slash, 1415 Weaponskill
146 Attacks, 118 Hits, 80% Hit Rate.
Minimum Damage: 161
Maximum Damage: 223
Average Damage: 192
Damage Spread: 62
32.7 DPS
--------------------------------------------
Test 6: 50+14 Polearm, 50+14 Slash, 1415 Weaponskill
180 Attacks, 143 Hits, 79% Hit Rate.
Minimum Damage: 162
Maximum Damage: 225
Average Damage: 194
Damage Spread: 63
33.1 DPS
--------------------------------------------
These show a couple of things. One it shows undeiably that not double speccing hurts overall damage. Not news to most people but every once in a while someone does ask.
Second it shows that there is virtually no difference between 50 polearm and natural 50 slash, compared to 50 polearm and and effective 50 slash (36+11+RR4).
Third it shows that getting your base weapon spec (slash/crush/thrust) over 50 with items and realm ranks has no tangible benefit.
Fourth it shows that the damage spread between minimum and maximum damage, which is what double speccing was commonly thought to improve, remains virtually unchange throughout the range of different specs.
There are two tests on the Pendragon private boards, one comparing an armsman to a warrior with identical stats, the other comparing an armsman to a hero with identical stats. It's against that forum's policy to repost them here, but the results of the tests were that a full spec pole/2h and damage type armsman does the same damage as LW or spear hero, and the same as a full sword/axe/hammer warrior. Additionally, when the armsman specs lower in base damage type, his damage falls behind the other two.
My hope is that Mythic will not remove double speccing altogether, but will instead make it worthwhile. Please keep this post and posts like it bumped. Armsman have received nothing for the first two years of the game, the least Mythic can do is fix this poorly implemented system.
-----signature-----
Keersdan Broch, 50 Armsman (Retired)
Darkkyn Swiftblade, 50 Infiltrator (Retired)
Darkkyn Sinister, 50 Ranger
<Rain of Steel> Galahad
I post under the name Darkkyn now.
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Nyctophobia
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Date Posted:
10/9/03 12:09pm
Subject:
RE: Polearm Tests (Compliation)
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Quinkness 4 teh lose?
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Iamoped... Nuff said
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Keersdan
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Date Posted:
10/9/03 12:11pm
Subject:
RE: Polearm Tests (Compliation)
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I don't have any Quickness on my suit or in any of my items. Not for any particular reason other than it was my last priority. For the tests I didn't want any Quickness to effect my weaponspeed.
-----signature-----
Keersdan Broch, 50 Armsman (Retired)
Darkkyn Swiftblade, 50 Infiltrator (Retired)
Darkkyn Sinister, 50 Ranger
<Rain of Steel> Galahad
I post under the name Darkkyn now.
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Malidyn
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Date Posted:
10/9/03 12:16pm
Subject:
RE: Polearm Tests (Compliation)
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Thanks, Keersdan.
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Acitve - Rosimonde - 50th Wizardess
Retired - Rosimond - 50th Mercenary
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Krashnillion
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Date Posted:
10/9/03 4:52pm
Subject:
RE: Polearm Tests (Compliation)
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Keersdan,
Thank you for your hard work.
It is very much appreciated!
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Daoc was a black hole
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Sonesh
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Date Posted:
10/9/03 6:17pm
Subject:
RE: Polearm Tests (Compliation)
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thanks for your good work, Keersdan 
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Sonesh/ Armswoman on Stonehenge
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Keersdan
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Date Posted:
10/9/03 7:10pm
Subject:
RE: Polearm Tests (Compliation)
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Thank you guys. I hope it does some good, hopefully sooner rather than later.
-----signature-----
Keersdan Broch, 50 Armsman (Retired)
Darkkyn Swiftblade, 50 Infiltrator (Retired)
Darkkyn Sinister, 50 Ranger
<Rain of Steel> Galahad
I post under the name Darkkyn now.
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gervaise1
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Date Posted:
10/9/03 7:27pm
Subject:
RE: Polearm Tests (Compliation)
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Presumably there is no appreciable difference between 50+14 polearm and 36+14 polearm?
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warriorspassion
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Date Posted:
10/9/03 9:43pm
Subject:
RE: Polearm Tests (Compliation)
- Date Edited:
10/9/03 9:44pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
warriorspassion
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Thats some good testing right there in my opinion. Controlled, lots of hits.
Kinda shocking results. :/
Damage spread never really changed, average damage barely went up.
Nice job Keersdan, wish more people tested like that.
*edit : were you using consistenly same styles?
7L4 warrior
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lostro
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Date Posted:
10/10/03 4:51am
Subject:
RE: Polearm Tests (Compliation)
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u do know that +str changes ur weapon skill
and the more base weapon u have only lessen's the gap of your dmg
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Gawaine <The Oracle> Lot 108 ALL RETIRED!!!!!
Smiting - 50 Cleric, Raidz - 50 Necro, LoStru - 50 Reaver, Killn - 46 Arms
MLF < Semper Fi > Fuzzybunny - 47 Zerk, LoStru - 34 Warrior, buncha lvl 30's
Guin <Nocturnal> LoStro - 50 Warden, Khoger - 44 N
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Keersdan
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Date Posted:
10/10/03 6:27am
Subject:
RE: Polearm Tests (Compliation)
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Presumably there is no appreciable difference between 50+14 polearm and 36+14 polearm?
50+14 polearm will give you a higher weaponskill and a higher damage cap with a polearm equipped, so yes there is a difference there. Here's a couple of examples of tests against a 0 health milegate door:
--------------------------------------------
39+14 Polearm, 50+14 Slash, 1320 Weaponskill
Damage Caps (Against Level 0 Spirit Hounds)
Unstyled: 431
Crippling Blow: 581
Defender's Cross: 623
Phalanx: 660
Average Base Damage (Against a 0 health milegate door)
110 Attacks
101 Hits - 90.9% Hit Rate
Minimum Damage: 68
Maximum Damage: 95
Average Damage: 81.8
28.5% Variance
--------------------------------------------
39+14 Polearm, 39+14 Slash, 1320 Weaponskill
Damage Caps (Against Level 0 Spirit Hounds)
Unstyled: 431
Crippling Blow: 581
Defender's Cross: 623
Phalanx: 660
Average Base Damage (Against a 0 health milegate door)
116 Attacks
106 Hits - 91.4% Hit Rate
Minimum Damage: 68
Maximum Damage: 95
Average Damage: 82.1
28.5% Variance
--------------------------------------------
*edit : were you using consistenly same styles?
No styles were used. These tests are meant to be compared to heros and warriors as an indication of how we stack up against them considering we have a higher spec point requirement. When styles get involved, the differences in growth rates can make one line look stronger or weaker depending.
u do know that +str changes ur weapon skill
Of course, I'm not sure of the relevance of this question though.
and the more base weapon u have only lessen's the gap of your dmg
No it doesn't, that's the misconception these tests disprove. Look at the damage spread bewteen all the specs. They fluctuate between a 62 and 64 point spread, so the base damage type spec does nothing to tighten that up.
-----signature-----
Keersdan Broch, 50 Armsman (Retired)
Darkkyn Swiftblade, 50 Infiltrator (Retired)
Darkkyn Sinister, 50 Ranger
<Rain of Steel> Galahad
I post under the name Darkkyn now.
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MrIcky
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Date Posted:
10/10/03 8:50am
Subject:
RE: Polearm Tests (Compliation)
- Date Edited:
10/10/03 8:52am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
MrIcky
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Keersdan, sincere thank you from myself and many of my PA/2h buddies .
I don't know if it will help change anything, except my spec.
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Darkhawk30
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Date Posted:
10/10/03 9:07am
Subject:
RE: Polearm Tests (Compliation)
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Disproving that going 50/50 is worth a damn is worth its weight in gold. Imagine what you could do with 645 extra spec points.
Now, I'd like somehow to do a test for parry and see where the sweet spot is for speccing parry. Is it worth it to go 44+(bonus) in parry? Do you get the same result from 35+ parry?
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Breland Darkhawk (50 Arms - Igraine)
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Deanoh DemonInBlack (50 Infiltrator - Igraine)
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warriorspassion
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Date Posted:
10/10/03 11:03am
Subject:
RE: Polearm Tests (Compliation)
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Why no styles? Sorry if I missed the reason why, but it cant hurt too see if the results differ (why would they though..) by using styles.
Just a thought I had is all...dunno.
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Hiro-Yamada
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Date Posted:
10/10/03 11:14am
Subject:
RE: Polearm Tests (Compliation)
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Parry and shield both get more effective as your spec goes above 50. So 50+11 parry is better than 39+11.
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"You are smart, you will make us go fast."
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Keersdan
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Date Posted:
10/10/03 11:50am
Subject:
RE: Polearm Tests (Compliation)
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Why no styles? Sorry if I missed the reason why, but it cant hurt too see if the results differ (why would they though..) by using styles.
Just a thought I had is all...dunno.
For the purposes of these tests, nothing is gained from using styles. You can't compare say Crippling Blow (polaeram anytime) to Ruiner (Midgard hammer anytime) because the growth rates are different. By the same token if I compared the pre-nerf Defender's Combo to and sword/hammer/axe combo, Defender's looked overpowered. The fact that it was the hardest chain to actually land was often ignored
When you land a style it's growth rate is used as a multiplier for the base damage. When base damage goes down, the total amount you hit for with a style will go down as well. We've seen here that as your base damage type spec goes down (under your level at least) that your base damage goes down as well. So yes, you would style for less if base damage spec was under your level with items and realm rank.
Other than that I guess I'm just not sure what it is your asking me to test.
-----signature-----
Keersdan Broch, 50 Armsman (Retired)
Darkkyn Swiftblade, 50 Infiltrator (Retired)
Darkkyn Sinister, 50 Ranger
<Rain of Steel> Galahad
I post under the name Darkkyn now.
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